洞院リナ ([info]pawteegal) wrote,
@ 2008-02-24 10:57:00
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Current mood: contemplative

pipe dreams reflection
Is the lolita a sustainable community?

This is a simple question get asked a lot, and I have ways felt it is quite possible to do so. Recently I have been revisiting this very question myself due to a number of things surfacing. But I have realize that the dream of authenticity may only stay in dreams. While I feel there are much potential in the community itself, the predatory and cannibalistic nature is too much of a temptation.

Which brings me to an old chinese story which had many variations, in reflecting on kindness and the cruel reality of the world. The version I heard goes something like this, and I will make it very short for the tl;dr types. This shot tale about an ox and a snake looking for food as the field they were in are becoming barren. The snake got up a tree and saw that there was food abundant in a distant, but it cannot cross the fairly wide, and rather deep river. The ox being fairly big couldn't get the same view due to it's size being too big to climb a tree to know where this new area abundant is. . After a while of contemplating, a fish in the river suggested the idea that if the ox would allow the snake to ride on it's back to cross the river, and to navigate to the food source. Then both of them will be able to find food in this cooperative manner. The idea seems great so the two agreed to help each others to cross the river. Only a few more yards before reaching the shore, the ox felt a sting on it's neck.. turned and found the snake had impaled it's fangs into it's neck.. Upon the ox's dying breath it asks: Why have you done this to me? We will now both perish. The snake replies: Because this is my nature.


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[info]frozenemotion9
2008-02-24 11:25 pm UTC (link)
I've asked myself that a lot too and while my situation is different from yours I feel also that it is possible but there will be many hardships. Good luck! Maybe you can come to the next meet up we are trying for another soon- and hopefully this time you won't be called away- like always :(

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[info]pawteegal
2008-02-25 09:08 pm UTC (link)
its a though situation , and I must ponder often if it's a waste of efforts as I feel many are very short sighted on cashing out than to think of the longevity of the community.

Lately work has been quite taxing.. I do hope to make it next time.. but life is always so uncertain

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[info]smileysquid
2008-02-25 06:05 am UTC (link)
stupid snake!

but humans are different, right? we can reason and change..
i am optimistic, so i think it is a sustainable community

go go lolita chan!

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[info]pawteegal
2008-02-25 09:09 pm UTC (link)
I like to think so. But I'm also constantly being reminded of those are out to take advantage of the innocents.

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[info]kytrax
2008-02-25 08:40 pm UTC (link)
I'm not sure what you mean by sustainable. The international lolita community is made up of very diverse people. Some enjoy it casually while others are more involved. Some are poor and some are rich, etc etc. We're all different and despite what some may think, not all lolita's think alike or share the same ideals.

If you're asking, can anyone make money off Lolita in North America? It would work the same way as any other kind of import. People want to buy stuff. You can become a middleman or a reseller (Dream Shoppe).

Even if lolita fashion pulls away from international sales altogether, it won't stop the ones who want to wear the dresses from going to Asia to purchase what they want.

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[info]pawteegal
2008-02-25 09:41 pm UTC (link)
sustainability does not necessarily cover the volume of purchase, but rather in my eyes the integrity. Profiting form the community is certainly been a try and true market, which it's quite different than jut sustaining an organization or community. But often such action are very short sighted and do not take regard in preserving original content or the long term affect that they may cause. Why are we short changing ourselves for immediate gratification, than bridging the culture directly? By passing the middle man altogether.

One of the main reasons why I've started this NPO was my hope to bring the culture directly here to America soil unadulterated for all to have the first hand experience. I do this for the passion not that dollar sign.

Now that things are in full motion I realize that there are evidence of people taking advantage of this opportunity for their own gain. This makes me wonder if I should continue forward in the effort, as my resources would simply end up funding someone else's bank account.

I feel if that if we continue as a community course, we will forever have nothing second hand filtered version of the culture. You're probably well aware of this being that you are very much immersed in the industry. Just think how many times people complaint about XYZ (usually manga), is being censored/reworded/Americanized (Gringolized), and the day when BBTSB started shipping internationally rather than paying a hefty or ANY fee? These things behind the scene takes a lot efforts personal resources by many individuals to make things happen (I'm sure you know that one all too well first hand) , and there are plenty of people who rather keep form maturing properly. Because it is easy to exploit the masses, and majority population would not even question it.

Seeing such activities being carried out truly breaks my heart.

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[info]kytrax
2008-02-26 12:29 am UTC (link)
What I've learned is that it's best to treat it like a business. Make a plan, fund the plan and don't over extend on the plan. It's all well and good to be altruistic, but it won't last in a capitalistic world. Organizations fail when they run out of funding (mostly due to poor planning).

I've become very good at filtering out the negative, but still listening to what is happening around me. Don't get discouraged because everyone wants to put their hands in the pot. As long as you have your plan together and your organization is well run, you can pull through. The relationships you build will last if you show your organization has got it together.

There never was much integrity in the lolita community. For every one person who was honest and tried to understand Japanese culture, there have been ten who don't care.

Also, why do these Japanese companies want to come to America? It's not to educate people. It's to capture the American market. Though the designer, musician or artist wants to simply communicate, the marketing head wants to increase the profits.

Phew! There seems to be so many things happening to the community these days and so many differences of opinion on what could happen. If you need help with anything, don't ever hesitate to ask. ^_^

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[info]pawteegal
2008-02-26 04:20 am UTC (link)
That is very true I've seen and worked with plenty of organizations who's demise was two things. Lack of focus, and lack of adaptation. Our mission is to certainly service the community, but only in a manner of that is self sustainable, and so far we're actually doing pretty well. But I am not ashamed to admit that the realization that drastic adaptation due to the rise in competitive aggression is a fact that is quite daunting to me.

And you are also very right on regarding to how our community historically is. At the same time because it is so, I feel compelled help nurture it so that there will be people who would understand that Princess Diana's life was a better role model than Marine Antoinette. And your example pretty much said it all.

And thank you for writing this really thoughtful thread, I really appreciate your perspective. But yea, these days the happenings in the community are so volatile , it almost seem like it's a full time job just to keep on top of it all.. again, thank you, I am sure I'll be talking to you again soon enough.


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[info]sekiria
2008-02-26 03:54 am UTC (link)
I'm thinking there's no way to stop snakes from being snakes... If snakes are absolutely necessary to get where you're going, the only way to get around this is to bulk up that ox so that the fangs can't through the hide - or carry an antidote.

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[info]sekiria
2008-02-26 03:55 am UTC (link)
Or else, maybe just increase the number of oxen to snake ratio, that way, even if one falls, there are others to take its place. (And answer to with some good, old-fashioned snake prejudice)

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[info]pgchan
2008-02-26 03:03 pm UTC (link)
I think that the main problem is in how you view and value the "lolita community." Personally, I feel the international loli community is not cohesive enough of a subgroup to be brought under one umbrella.

I know that you are very focused on protecting the artistic philosophy, vision, and integrity of the Japanese brands as they expand into the international market. On that note, I'm torn. It's like any other great thing, any subgroup - as you expand the scope, you by definition have to lose some control. There's no way to hold on to everything as it gets that big unless you also put checks on the thing itself and it's growth. And the nature of the public is that once something is introduced publically, it gets harder and harder to control. If lolita gets bigger, it's going to change. It's watching a baby grow up, if you will. As much as any one time in its history is, it can't stay there forever. Look at high fashion. The enduring brands reinvent themselves with a sharp eye so that decades later they can remain classic, retaining a cultivated image.

Personally, I think that international lolita lacks a cohesive image and philosophy, so what you're interested in would be more endorsing the brands imagery rather than perpetuating an existing community image. Even in Japan, the loli brands are established and relatively respected, but they are not quite mainstream. To take brands to an international market, and maintain their artistic image, you need to focus on upping the credibility of their image first. It'd be slower (and if loli booms suddenly for one reason or another, you may not get that time, once again the public makes things harder to control), but it would pin down what lolita means, and then give you a platform from which to define what kind of person wears lolita, how you wear it, what wearing it means. That's building a fanbase, and with an already large and varied fanbase in place it's a starting place to build a public image of a community.

As my dear friend Laura once told me when I was feeling down, FIGHT TO WIN, MUTHAFUKKA ♥

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